Redesigning a Second Generation Kitchen

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As a restaurant operator moving into a space that has previously been a restaurant can save a lot of cash, but it comes with it's own considerations as you redesign the kitchen to meet your needs. 

Catch today's podcast where host, Michael Carro, is joined by Don Theriot, Founder, and Owner of Kesco, Kitchen Equipment & Supply Co. Don details how to update an existing restaurant kitchen and create a functional redesign for your restaurant.

Main Take Aways:

• Using the main equipment infrastructure of an existing space can keep costs low, even when you replace all other equipment.

• The main perks of a second gen restaurant space: exhaust hood system, walk-in coolers and freezers, and additional plumbing and utilities it takes to run this equipment

• Ensure that you redesign the kitchen with your menu in mind. Do you have the space needed to create the menu? What ingredients do you need storage for? Will you need to upsize machines like the ice-maker to better accommodate your concept?

Catch the full episode to learn how to go about exhaust hood inspections, rewiring, and discussion on what type of actions may need additional permitting.

Subscribe to get new episodes that provide uncensored straight talk geared to answer your restaurant and restaurant real estate questions. 

Rather read through the episode?

Scroll on! Full transcription below.

Michael Carro : 0:01

Welcome to The Restaurant Realty in 10. Ten minutes of uncensored straight talk for restaurant entrepreneurs twice weekly The Restaurant Realty in 10 dives into restaurant operations, facilities, real estate and investments. Welcome to The Restaurant Realty in 10. This is your host Michael Carro. And we've got Don Theoit with Kesco; that's kitchen, equipment, and supply into the sound booth. Don, welcome to the program.

Don Theoit : 0:23

Thank you for having me, Michael.

Michael Carro : 0:24

Now, Don, you've done this with me before, but today we're going to focus on designing a kitchen in a restaurant that is second generation and what that means is it's already been a restaurant before the previous restaurant is no longer there. A new entrepreneur is going to take over the space and they want to make it their space, their cuisine, so we're going to pick it up from there. We've already done a show previously on new restaurant spaces, but this is second generation space. So Don, start off by telling us what is unique about taking over a previous restaurant space from your vantage point.

Don Theoit : 0:59

The owner of the space that was a restaurant at one time, he's the most important person that we can gather information from. Normally, depending on his funding sources and his availability to buy new equipment, however that happens to be with him specifically, we want to find out if he wants to use the existing equipment that's there, primarily, the exhaust hood system, the walk in cooler and freezer, and try to locate the other equipment associated with the plumbing and the utilities that is already existing, and to incorporate that into the plans.

Michael Carro : 1:38

Alright, and so based on that restaurant infrastructure, and by the way, that's also what I try to convince a lot of my clients to go into, we can typically save a significant amount of money, not by using the old equipment, other than what I consider infrastructure items like the hood, walk in all those things that can be of great value. When you don't have to buy a brand new. So let's assume that you go through each of these systems and they check out but let's talk about each of them for just a moment. What is the walk in cooler and the walk in freezer? What are the main issues that you find with older equipment that a new owner needs to be aware of?

Don Theoit : 2:15

The equipment has to be able to maintain proper temperatures to satisfy the food inspector. And usually the walk in cooler/freezer panels can be reused or rescanned, which we have done in several areas, but the refrigeration system has to be capable of maintaining 34 degree holding temperature for cooler and zero to minus 10 on the freezer.

Michael Carro : 2:40

Okay, and so what about hood systems? Do they typically maintain themselves pretty well over time? Or do you see that their compressors go out or you know, maybe you always recommend we do a full renovation and redo all the belts and hoses and things of that nature.

Don Theoit : 2:54

The exhaust hood system is a primary part of this building. The Fire Marshal will definitely inspect the hood system and its capability to extract grease laden vapors. Which would include his exhaust fan that's either on the roof or the vertical wall outside, his return air system has to be in working condition at least. But most importantly, his fire suppression system has got to be currently accredited and verified in working condition, because without a current approved listing on that fire suppression system, the customer will not obtain his certificate of occupancy.

Michael Carro : 3:33

So now you go into this old building. You see that, "Yeah, we can use that hood system. We can use the walk and we can use the current sinks." And so now you get into the design. What challenges do you typically face working within the walls that are currently there? Or I presume there's also times that you recommend, hey, listen, if we move this wall, four feet, you know. So what challenges you typically face going into an older facility?

Don Theoit : 3:58

The production of his menu is a criteria that is above everything else. Does this space have the capability of producing his menu for the certain number of seats he's going to have to satisfy his return on investment? Serious considerations have to be discussed. For instance, the ingredients of his of his menu and how this food has to be stored. If the refrigeration is of adequate space, his walk in freezer has adequate space, does he have a bar in the place where he needs to upsize his ice machine? And all of these are serious considerations to help him become a successful operation.

Michael Carro : 4:36

That's great information. Some of those things I would not have thought about, you know, I sell and lease a lot of second generation restaurant spaces. And, you know, a lot of those factors I haven't even considered so I'm definitely learning stuff today.

Don Theoit : 4:49

Thank you, Michael.

Michael Carro : 4:50

Don, if you're able to use the existing space, let's discuss some of the challenges with getting it approved through either the Health Inspector or if you have electrical and plumbing issues, new permits may have to be pulled on those. Walk me through some of the challenges that you face in redoing an existing building with the plans being submitted to the municipality.

Don Theoit : 5:13

In our selection of equipment process, the utilities that have to be provided to that piece of equipment the customer may not have, for instance, the sufficient electrical supply voltage going to a steamer, for instance, and he may have to rewire his circuit breaker panel. When that happens. Normally, the electrical contractor upon you for the job will have to acquire a permit to run new wiring just for that one piece of equipment.

Michael Carro : 5:46

Gotcha.

Don Theoit : 5:47

Sometimes if it's not necessary to rework the existing wiring, then a permit may not be required. It all depends on the inspector.

Michael Carro : 5:56

Okay, and I presume it's the same thing if you had to add certain plumbing and things of that nature. Exactly. If you add roof penetrations, I know that anytime you touch a roof at least in this area, you've got to get that. Here's a bit of advice. Have your roofer, especially if the roof is under warranty, have that same roofer make the roof penetration and seal it up.

Don Theoit : 6:16

Absolutely.

Michael Carro : 6:17

So would that happen? They would come cut the hole, you might then run whatever piece of equipment that would go through the roof, and then they would then seal it up is that the process? Correct.

Don Theoit : 6:25

The roofing contractor would make the roof penetration then the utilities would be installed talking about refrigeration lines or electrical through that roof penetration. And then the roofing contractor comes back after the work is done. And reseal that roof.

Michael Carro : 6:41

And then that also is a great opportunity to maintain the warranty

Don Theoit : 6:45

Exactly for the building owner.

Michael Carro : 6:48

That's right. Well and a lot of leases are triple net so the tenant is responsible for especially if there's a roof penetration, they're going to be responsible for any leaks in the future. Don talked to me about some of the primary questions that a entrepreneur/new restaurant owners should be asking either their broker, the landlord, property owner, whomever to really understand what they're getting into

Don Theoit : 7:12

The most important thing that we are involved in as an equipment dealer, what utilities are provided to operate this equipment as per manufacturer's specifications. That's the number one thing that as a dealer, we need to find out. What is he got there? And if the existing utilities will be sufficient to provide enough power, and plumbing, and hot and cold water necessarily operate this equipment. The next important thing that we asked, can we go and see can we actually visit the site to see what condition for instance, are the floors in? The floors have got to be in good enough condition to meet the Board of Health specifications as it regards to cracks in the tile or the floor is not sanitary enough to keep clean. And of course wall conditions and of course, the ceiling and lighting for instance. We all make comments about that as part of our inspection that the owner has to consider.

Michael Carro : 8:06

And forthose of you don't know what Don's referring to is, everything has to be washable surface in the kitchen. So a lot of times you'll have FRP on the walls, which is sold in four by eight sheets. What is FRP? Is it like a plastic?

Don Theoit : 8:17

Fiberglass Reinforced Panels.

Michael Carro : 8:19

Well, there it is. Now I know what FRP stands for. So you have these FRP on the walls, and then your ceilings are typically coated in plastic. So in the normal part of a restaurant or an office, you might see these foam two by fours or two by two tiles. But once they get into the kitchen, they have to be a washable surface. So some will actually be coated in a vinyl and then I've seen more recent ones that they don't actually have the thickness. They're just a polyurethane panel, like piece of plastic, that can be cut and it's washable surface.

Don Theoit : 8:52

Exactly. That's exactly right. And the inspectors have to note what is the characteristics of the kitchen of the site and when condition is all of the other materials that will affect the sanitary production of the owners menu.

Michael Carro : 9:07

And then the flooring. What I see a lot of times is the flooring could be in good condition, but the grout is so pitted that it's holding water. It's allowing bacterial growth to happen. And so I want to say it's a simple job, but it could be just chiseling away the old grout and regrouting it in the floor then looks fantastic. That's correct. That is a possibility to do. It's expensive, but you can do that. Certainly. Don, thank you so much for joining us. We look forward to our next podcast with Don Theoit with Kesco.

Don Theoit : 9:37

Thanks again, Michael for having me.

Michael Carro : 9:39

Thank you for listening to The Restaurant Realty in 10. If you're interested in restaurants, whether operations, facilities, buying, leasing or investment, The Restaurant Realty in 10 is for you. Please subscribe to this podcast and you can also visit TheRestaurantRealty.com for show notes topics and additional information.