Designing Custom Signs
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On today's episode of The Restaurant Realty in 10 host, Michael Carro, is joined by a first-time guest, Tom Poe. Tom designs signs at Brix Design Inc. in Downtown Pensacola. He discusses different types of signs and breaks down the sign design process.
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Michael Carro 0:01 Welcome to The Restaurant Realty in 10. 10 minutes of uncensored straight talk for restaurant entrepreneurs twice-weekly The Restaurant Realty in 10 dives into restaurant operations facilities, real estate and investments. Welcome to The Restaurant Realty in 10. This is Michael Carro, your host and today we have Tom Poe with Brix Design talking about signs for restaurants. Tom does a lot of sign installations and development for signs around town. So we wanted to have Tom into the program. Welcome.
Tom Poe 0:28 Hey, thank you.
Michael Carro 0:29 Tell us a little bit about Brix Design and how you operate.
Tom Poe 0:33 Well basically we're a three man shop we have a designer, a fabricator, and a shop person that does some of both. We've been around for about eight years is Brix Design in downtown Pensacola
Michael Carro 0:43 and Brix is B-R-I-X for those of you who are going to look up Brix Design. When a restaurant is ready to prepare a location to turn it into a restaurant of their choosing. And they ultimately come up with a logo and a name they typically will reach out to how do you go from their concept of a sign and a design to an actual sign on their building or on a monument.
Tom Poe 1:04 Well, basically, at the onset, they'll come out with an idea. And we'll meet at the building to look their idea over and see how it goes with the rest of their motif, make some suggestions, really take pictures of building and implement their logo onto the building and see if we can make it work for them. A lot of times, there's issues with that, but we have to work those through. And that takes a little time on the onset.
Michael Carro 1:25 You know, you're working on a design concept for me in downtown think it's called a monument sign, right? You're doing monument signs, and those are signs that sit on the ground.
Tom Poe 1:33 Correct.
Michael Carro 1:34 Is that the definition of a monument sign?
Tom Poe 1:36 that or a pylon sign.
Michael Carro 1:38 And so I call a pylon sign something that's typically on a pole that is up higher, at least that's my vernacular,
Tom Poe 1:45 a lot of people feel that way. And you could go either way.
Michael Carro 1:47 Gotcha. And then then you have the building mounted signs. And so those you have a whole bunch of types of those
Tom Poe 1:52 correct.
Michael Carro 1:53 And what are some examples of types of signs that go on buildings,
Tom Poe 1:56 sometimes people will want to have a blade style sign that you can see from a sidewalk both ways or sometimes it's flat, you know, there's just a lot of reasons you might put a wall sign in conjunction with a free stand sign to try to get your image out there and be plain to see
Michael Carro 2:10 and the two types that I'm familiar with would be called a can sign or it may be in a simple form a square box with a plastic cover and it's backlit correct
Tom Poe 2:20 a lighted face sign
Michael Carro 2:21 in lighted face and then the other one with the individual letters is that called a Raceway.
Tom Poe 2:26 Those would be called channel letters, channel letters, they mount to a Raceway. But lately, the idea is to get away from the raceway or incorporate the raceway into the look instead of hiding it behind the letters.
Michael Carro 2:39 Okay, and so the blade sign is perpendicular to the building. So it goes out at a 90 degree angle and you're doing four of those for us in the downtown project.
Tom Poe 2:49 Correct.
Michael Carro 2:50 So you've got building signs monument and pylon signs,
Tom Poe 2:53 wall signs,
Michael Carro 2:54 wall signs, what's a wall sign?
Tom Poe 2:56 Any wall sign would include like what you put beside the door or the actual name up on the building somewhere, the lit signs or the channel letter signs are also considered wall signs when we refer to.
Michael Carro 3:07 Okay, so at what point during a restaurant owners development should he reach out to you to begin that sign process because there's permitting and a lot of sign codes that you have to study and go through. So what would be the appropriate time?
Tom Poe 3:21 Well, usually, once they've decided to engage an architect to look at their property, they should be talking to us so we can give information to them as well, because the electrical needs and different support needs in the building to accomplish idea would best be served there at the beginning. A lot of times, customers are afraid to get a console because they're afraid of engaging too early or money or extra money. But really, at that point, we're ready to do that for free, because we want to make sure that the project goes well. And it behooves us to get in there as early as possible without that feeling that you might be running into some expense.
Michael Carro 3:52 and that initial site visit, they may want to put a sign on a location that doesn't have power and so it would be appropriate for them to do do it now when they're gonna maybe have a wall opened up versus later that they have to go back in and retrofit it.
Tom Poe 4:06 Absolutely.
Michael Carro 4:06 Okay,
Tom Poe 4:07 last minute problems are the probably the biggest thing.
Michael Carro 4:09 Okay, what are some challenges in working with the city about getting certain signs approved? Because I know there's all it's all about a calculation and the square footage. And so tell us about some of the challenges that you work through with the cities and counties.
Tom Poe 4:23 I think the the biggest problem is not so much with them. Because once you figure out their routines and the way that they need things to be, it's a snap to get through them, you know, but we're well versed and we get in there and dig in and find out how we can use those to our advantage instead of fighting and come up with a plan that's going to satisfy them as well as get to the end result we're looking for.
Michael Carro 4:43 So working with the same cities and municipalities over and over, you learn the routines, you get it done. It's no problem correct in those certain historical districts architectural review districts downtown improvement districts, you may have a second hurdle above the municipal code permits to also deal with so the client needs to be aware of all that. But they shouldn't be the ones to do that that's something that you take care of
Tom Poe 5:06 Correct. Correct. We can streamline it all we have to do is get the information we need. And we can basically get all the answers before we even begin.
Michael Carro 5:13 You know, I have a lot of my clients, when they're looking for restaurants, they want to do the work and I try to educate them. Stop, you have enough to worry about you hire the sign guy, they'll take care of it, because in all likelihood, because we're going to do it once in a great while. We're likely to screw it up as restaurant owners than you are who does it every single day?
Tom Poe 5:33 That's correct. We've seen this before. We've seen that problem before. And we bring that to you and you have it as part of the package you know, to know all these details.
Michael Carro 5:41 So every municipality is obviously different. But what have you found from start to finish the day somebody gives you their idea, you sketch it out, you run it through permitting, you build the sign and install it walk me through each of the anticipated timelines of each of each process.
Tom Poe 5:58 Well, usually, initially When I meet with somebody, it takes maybe three or four days just to get something back as far as what's the right size of the sign if they have artwork ready, these things can be all accomplished at one fell swoop and I'd say probably a week a week and a half to take care of that. After you have those drawings and you agree how the signs will be put on the building, I can take that to whatever entity needs to see it whether it's a ARB or straight to permitting and get their input, make sure that we're in the right place which we usually can dig through codes to determine that but some idiosyncrasies require direct communication with them in order to get information we need to proceed.
Michael Carro 6:33 And the timing to typically get a permit a permit?
Tom Poe 6:36 In downtown Pensacola could take two days or it could take a week but never longer than that.
Michael Carro 6:41 Okay, so now you have the permit is that when you would start the construction?
Tom Poe 6:44 I start construction as soon as I feel that they are going to approve my project in order to save time You know, there's a lot of things to jump through. But once ARB approvals are made and the initial design approvals are made, I feel competent, all like doing will begin the project at that point.
Michael Carro 6:59 I know it did. pends on the sign, right, you've got easy signs, very complex signs tell me the difference between let's use my new sign, which I would say that is that fairly complex
Tom Poe 7:09 It is. Michael Carro 7:10 The sign that he's going to describe is a monument sign, we're going to be making two of them at our new food court in downtown Pensacola. So with that you're charged with making four blade signs and two monument signs
Tom Poe 7:23 Correct.
Michael Carro 7:23 Of course, every restaurant or landlord in this case feels like their sign is special. So
Tom Poe 7:29 Yours is the best.
Michael Carro 7:31 And I love you for that. So tell me about the uniqueness of that sign. And what you're doing with that.
Tom Poe 7:36 Well basically the sign is restricted in size in that particular zone to 12 square feet. So in order to make a bigger statement out of that, we have to find ways to make the background which is not counted in that square footage calculation look more interesting to grab more attention and this particular sign is a little bit elaborate because we're using a wood background and then we're going to place a lighted sign panel on top of that the light is sign panels unique Because in the downtown area, there's a problem with how signs are lit, they don't want the channel letters and they don't want big lit face signs on their buildings down here, they want something that looks either more period done out of wood, or they want it to look only letters lit, which would be called a route through push through, or a route through, see through. And this type of sign is a little bit more elaborate to create, and it takes a little bit more time. So I'd say Mike signs are probably going to take about four weeks from the day we start to the day we finish them. The wall signs are a little simpler. They're not lit signs, so they're called dimensional signs. And they have raised letters and you know, panel backgrounds that make them interesting. And that really is the key to everything about this industry is to make something that looks interesting because even though they may not be able to read your message right off the bat, they'll look over and see something interesting and be drawn to that and be looking at your project, whether they're reading it or not.
Michael Carro 8:49 And the time to make those blade signs that you're describing, or how long?
Tom Poe 8:53 Those signs from the day I say go. They've probably done each one of them in about three days.
Michael Carro 8:58 Okay, so three days. Verses about
Tom Poe 9:00 four weeks,
Michael Carro 9:01 four weeks. So that's a pretty significant length of time difference. And so that's why you need to plan your restaurant signs well in advance, because I gotta presume you get people that are ready to open tomorrow. And they realize, Oh, I don't have a sign.
Tom Poe 9:15 Absolutely. I mean, does that really happen that often? It does happen that often. Basically, what people are doing is they're so focused on the nuts and bolts, and they just think that's a last minute thing. And they'll take care of that, they've got a rough idea, but they don't really hone it. And then they get to the last thing and they got something printed, they download off the internet and they want you to make a sign out of it. And can do it in two weeks, and you get a banner in two weeks and then your style come a couple weeks after that.
Michael Carro 9:39 Alright, so last question, and don't include mine. What is your favorite sign that you've ever built?
Tom Poe 9:45 That's a hard question to answer off hand because there's so many lately. Angelina's came out really nice.
Michael Carro 9:50 Oh, you produce that one. Beautiful. That is actually one of my favorite signs.
Tom Poe 9:54 Oh, really?
Michael Carro 9:54 Yeah, it really is.
Tom Poe 9:55 Do you know down downstairs, have you seen the menu box next to that? I have that menu boxes. We did that with the laser and custom made all that home myself. So
Michael Carro 10:05 Angelenas is my favorite sign. I gotta tell you there's several signs in town that I love. Obviously that Fish House sign is quite spectacular. The DUH sign. Do you remember DUH? There were three wooden letters, channel letters made out of wood that sat on the ground.
Tom Poe 10:20 Yeah.
Michael Carro 10:20 Did you see that? That's another favorite sign. Of course, the Joe Patty sign is unbelievable. My old Alfresco signs I thought were very, you know, of course they were mine. But I was very pleased with how they turned out.
Tom Poe 10:31 They were a motif sign and they hit that well.
Michael Carro 10:34 Yeah. So there's some great signs. I really love it when people take extra time to be creative and develop something new. So, Tom Poe Brix Design. Thank you so much for your time today.
Tom Poe 10:44 Thanks, Mike. I appreciate that.
Michael Carro 10:45 and we'll have you back for the next one.
Tom Poe 10:46 Great.
Michael Carro 10:47 Thank you for listening to The Restaurant Realty in 10. If you're interested in restaurants, whether operations facilities buying leasing or investment, The Restaurant Realty in 10 is for you. Please subscribe to this podcast and you can also visit TheRestaurantRealty.com for show notes topics and additional information.